Old Testament Proofs of the Trinity
see also The Holy Trinity and Modern Arians
After reading the debate (Jul-Aug 1994) between Harold Kupp and Phil Porvaznik I felt compelled to find more Biblical proof to support Phil's position and disprove the false theology of Harold Kupp. Although, I thought Phil presented a solid case, Harold was a very clever opponent and I fear he may have planted seeds of doubt in the minds of some of the faithful.
The whole debate revolved around scripture from the New Testament and ended with the writings of the Church Fathers. Although, the scripture that was presented by Phil was overwhelming, Harold had a knack for twisting things around and interpreting these verses quite differently to support his position. Keep in mind that I am no where close to being in the same league as these two gentlemen, but feel that the case Phil presented can be strengthened with scriptures written in the Old Testament. Conversely, I think even Harold would have a hard time dealing with these Scriptures (i.e. make them to say something that they don't).
If I understood the debate correctly, Harold does not believe in the Holy Trinity. From what I read, Harold believes that God the Father is the one "True God" and the Lord Jesus Christ is a "lesser god", but none the less, He is our Lord and our God. Here is an excerpt from the debate:
PP> The question I would ask you: HOW MANY GODS DO YOU BELIEVE IN? Is Jesus a separate and distinct GOD from the Father? If so then you've got two Gods. >>
HK> I believe in One God-the-Father and in One Lord Jesus Christ who is our God (our theos). >>
It is my hope that the below information will restore faith in the doctrine of the Holy Trinity to anyone who may have been confused with the clever writings of Harold Kupp. I think the below scriptures prove without a doubt that there is only "One God" who created all things and within that "One God" there are three Divine Persons (read Phil's debate with Harold for proof positive). Old Testament scripture does not support Harold's opinion that God created Jesus, who in turn created all things. It does not support Harold's position that God the Father is the God of Jesus and that Jesus is our God (that doesn't even sound logical and leads me to believe that Harold has two Gods). I wonder if he worships both of them or only the Lord Jesus Christ? Anyway, after reading the debate between Phil Porvaznik and Harold Kupp, please read the additionally information which I feel strongly supports the position that Phil took (the Holy Trinity).
Gen 1:1-4 "In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw how good the light was. God then separated the light from the darkness."
It is clear from these verses that there was only "One God" who created the heavens and the earth. It is also clear to anyone who continues to read the First Story of Creation within the Book of Genesis, that there is no mention of "The True God" creating His Son "The lesser god" who in turn created all things. It just is not there. So much for Harold's interpretation of John 1:1-11.
Gen 1:26 reads: "Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
It is my opinion that the First Story of Creation supports the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and at the very least, it does not oppose the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. However, there is no Biblical support here for the position proposed by Harold Kupp. For we know that "God" (singular) created the heavens and the earth. And we also know that "God" said "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." Since there can only be one Creator or "God" then the "us" in Gen 1:26 must refer to the Persons of the Holy Trinity (co-equal and co-eternal). If the "us" in Gen 1:26 were other gods (lesser gods) it surely does not make that point clear in the Bible and would contradict the First Story of Creation. Also, if that were the case, why wouldn't the Bible simply state that "The God" created "the lesser god" who created all things? It does not say that because it is not true. Once again, so much for Harold's interpretation of John 1:1-11.
Exodus 20:2-6 reads: "I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you out of the
Now if Jesus (the Son of God) was not one in being with the Father (Holy Trinity), but rather a "lesser god" as Harold Kupp would have you believe, then Harold would clearly be breaking the First Commandment. For it is written: "You shall not have other gods besides me." The only way any person could worship Jesus without breaking the First Commandment would be if Jesus is "The God" and not a "lesser god" as Harold would have you believe. Here we have a clear case of Old Testament Scripture supporting "One God", "Three Divine Persons." This scripture in no way supports Harold's position that God the Father and God the Son are separate Gods, the only logical conclusion is that they are One God, but separate Persons.
Jamie K. Roth